[Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!
steve
stevareno at rtci.net
Fri Nov 7 15:13:35 CST 2008
Let me try spelling that again.... Any Idea when that information will be
available to us?
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve" <stevareno at rtci.net>
To: "Discussion relating to Gaviotas village in Colombia, their
technologies, philosophy, etc" <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!
> Any Idea when that information will be vailable to us?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Dingman" <dave_dingman at hotmail.com>
> To: <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!
>
>
>>
>> Not that Las Gaviotas needs to justify itself to you, or the world for
>> that matter, but I would view the situation as follows:What is Las
>> Gaviotas? Las Gaviotas is a sustainable community/living laboratory in
>> the Orinoco Basin of Colombia. The community was founded on the
>> principle that "one day, the world's population, particularly in the
>> tropics (as it is the world's fastest growing population), will be forced
>> to learn how to live in the world's most inhospitable locations".
>> Accordingly, the development objectives for the community were to create
>> a community using only the resources provided by the llanos. In
>> accordance with the Club of Rome's publication "Limits to Growth" (which
>> sustainablility enthusiasts surely are aware of), the community began to
>> demonstrate the notion of systems design and the relationship between
>> Paolo and Gunter Pauli (member of the Club of Rome) inspired the founding
>> of ZERI and its 5 kingdoms of nature approach to systems design through
>> exper
>> imentation in the community. More than ever, in spite of its
>> unprecedented success, Las Gaviotas continues to be true to its
>> objectives and remains a leader as a living laboratory for the world as
>> it moves beyond relatively simple solutions like sleeve-pumps and
>> windmills to more intense projects like producing new essential oils,
>> medications and bio-polymers and sustainable bio-diesel models from the
>> reforestation process. Now, on to the unjustified justification...1) In
>> accordance with its objectives, Las Gaviotas - as suggested by Paolo,
>> believes in local solutions to local problems. An idea whose application
>> you have disputed. Let us look more closely at this... if Las Gaviotas
>> had chosen to abandon its objective and import an existing solution such
>> as standard water pumps, it would not have solved the real problem with
>> access to safe water: the low water table during the dry season. That is
>> an example of the basis for the community's beliefs.2) In spite of your
>> obs
>> ervations as to the lack of dissemination of technology outside of
>> Colombia, Las Gaviotas has gone to incredible and unprecedented lengths
>> to share its technologies. Sleeve-pumps and windmills were distributed
>> to neighboring settlements throughout the Orinoco basin. These were
>> either sold or exchanged for food and/or services. Not to mention the
>> obvious humanitarianism in that the community realized the need for water
>> and health care and recognized their connection to the region. For those
>> outside of Colombia, including those in non-Spanish seaking regions,
>> there are manuals printed in comic book fashion with step-by-step parts
>> lists and instructions. I've digitized my copies and I will send them to
>> Robert for posting on the FOG website, if everyone wishes. I've kept
>> them to myself for reasons of copyright infringement, however, after
>> talking with Paolo, I don't see it that way anymore. He says, and I am
>> paraphrasing, "they share their technologies because their econo
>> my is built upon value-added economies and is not subject to competition,
>> rather, it fosters cooperation". The lack of dissemination of the
>> windmills and sleeve-pumps has mostly to do with the availabilty of
>> capital resources as well as demand for the products. As noted by
>> Weisman, many of the neighboring settlements did not properly maintain
>> their pumps or windmill systems and it was economically impossible for
>> Las Gaviotas to continue producing and maintaining them. It is also the
>> case, as the community gained support and notoriety from the UNDP,
>> Colombian governemnt and other nations such as Japan, that there was not
>> such a need for the windmills and pumps as there was for the solar water
>> heaters and raw material of pine resin. The developments that launched
>> the economy of Las Gaviotas were of military and hotel installations
>> within and around Bogota. There is no need for a pump or windmill in the
>> urbanized mountainous regions of Colombia. The international inve
>> stments from such places as Japan were more focused on raw materials than
>> they were a need for Japan to acquire sleeve-pumps and windmills. We
>> must also bare in mind that Weisman's book was authored in 1995, after
>> all of this has taken place. It is true that the pump is an inspiration
>> and a staple of the community, however, it is not their economy. 3) Las
>> Gaviotas continues to experiment and explore ways of sharing their
>> technologies with the outside world. Of recent, it has attempted to
>> partner with the Colombian military and government as well as multiple
>> international public and private investors on the Marandua project. Not
>> only will this venture exponentially increase the reforestation and
>> biodiesel programs, but it will also foster dissemination of technologies
>> through scientific/eco-tourism. Unfortunately, as we can all now see,
>> working with the Colombian government (or any government) is difficult
>> due to the levels of corruption and competing interests. So muc
>> h so that Paolo now refers to Marandua, if he refers to it at all, as
>> simply an idea. This is surely heartbreaking for many of us who have
>> invested ourselves to seeing the project move forward. In spite of this,
>> Paolo has acknowledged an increasing interest in allowing
>> scientific/eco-tourism to Las Gaviotas. This will only happen when the
>> community feels it becomes safe and appropriate for all parties
>> involved.4) On the global scene, it is not the responsibility of Las
>> Gaviotas to share its technologies. It is theirs, and all of ours,
>> responsibility to be a model unto the world. The world is perfectly
>> capable of being inspired and choosing its own respective ways. Take for
>> example, the Clinton Global Initiative's 2006 investment of $16.4M to
>> install 4,000 merry-go-round style "play-pumps" in 10 African countries.
>> http://commitments.clintonglobalinitiative.org/projects.htm?mode=view&rid=43026
>> There is no way that it should be considered "justified" for Las Gaviotas
>> to
>> attempt to make such an out-of-reach investment of their resources when
>> they are better left to surviving and inspiring Colombia in ways
>> appropriate to them. Always remember what Las Gaviotas is, not what you
>> perceive it could be. Be inspired. Think for yourself and question
>> authority. There that should get the debate going. By the way,
>> Bienvenue Manfred! Salud!Dave Dingman > From:
>> pinefarm at uniontel.net> To: gaviotas at greenbuilder.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov
>> 2008 07:45:46 -0600> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!> > If
>> that is true, what justification is there for not sharing it with the >
>> world and easing the burden on millions of women who pump water every
>> day?> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katherine Holt"
>> <katherine at peakinsight.com>> To: "'Discussion relating to Gaviotas
>> village in Colombia, their > technologies, philosophy, etc'"
>> <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:46 AM>
>> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred
>> !> > >>I have been to Gaviotas and have seen/used one of the sleeve
>> pumps. It>> truly is a marvel. I could operate it with my fingertips -
>> unlike the>> pump I had to use in northern Minnesota which took an
>> enormous amount of>> effort.>>>> Katherine>>>> -----Original
>> Message----->> From: gaviotas-bounces at greenbuilder.com>>
>> [mailto:gaviotas-bounces at greenbuilder.com] On Behalf Of Dave Johnson>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:35 PM>> To: Discussion relating to
>> Gaviotas village in Colombia, their>> technologies, philosophy, etc>>
>> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!>>>>>> But, it is a dumb idea.
>> That's why nobody in the hundreds of years>> reciprocating pumps have
>> been around has ever built one where the sleeve>>>> moves and the plunger
>> is stationary. I'll bet you nobody at Gaviotas>> ever>> made one either
>> and that's why we've never seen one from there. I think>> Weisman was
>> either taken in or he just got it wrong. Lugari should>> either>> admit
>> the pump is a hoax or p
>> roduce one. He's done neither to my>> knowledge.>> ----- Original
>> Message ----- >> From: "Caleb Frase" <CalebFrase at communityproducts.com>>>
>> To: "'Discussion relating to Gaviotas village in Colombia, their>>
>> technologies, philosophy, etc'" <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>>> Sent:
>> Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:13 PM>> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue
>> Manfred!>>>>>>> Dave Johnson>>> A pump is a pump, I have to say that the
>> sleeve pump concept is easy>>> enough to imagine for anyone with a little
>> practical background. A>> friend>>> of mine built a very effective pump
>> using PVC pipe and wooden plungers>>>>> with leather seals. It was
>> powered by a see-saw motion, done with two>> hand>>> levers at shoulder
>> height. I thought it was a great concept and>> suggested>>> that he
>> expand it and create a stepper and a bike. The potential to do>>>>>
>> something useful while burning calories seemed attractive.>>> Deriding
>> ideas as being dumb doesn't help anyone.>>> -Caleb>>>>>> -----Original
>> Message
>> ----->>> From: gaviotas-bounces at greenbuilder.com>>>
>> [mailto:gaviotas-bounces at greenbuilder.com]On Behalf Of Dave Johnson>>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:22 PM>>> To: Discussion relating to
>> Gaviotas village in Colombia, their>>> technologies, philosophy, etc>>>
>> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!>>>>>>>>> His argument falls
>> short when it is applied to the so called>>> inventions of Gaviotas,
>> especially to the "sleeve pump". A pump is a>>> pump. If it works one
>> place, it will work almost any place and yet>>> nobody in the years since
>> the book came out has ever seen one, not>>> even detailed plans for one.
>> It is a dumb idea and I doubt that there>>> is or ever was any such
>> thing. Dave Johnson>>> ----- Original Message ----->>> From: "Heath
>> Synnestvedt" <thapeloheath at gmail.com>>>> To:
>> <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:21 PM>>>
>> Subject: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!>>>>>>>>>> Welcome!>>>> I don't
>> speak French (yet) though i was born in
>> Canada. Yo si aprendi>>>>>> espanol en sudamerica, pero aqui en esta
>> lista se usa primeramente el>>>>>> Ingles. Like you i was captivated by
>> Alan Weisman's book, and this>>>> past May i had the privilege of meeting
>> Paulo Lugari in Philadelphia.>>>> Your paragraph below:>>>>>Pienso
>> tambien que necesitamos inventar para el nuevo siglo, un tipo>>>>>de>>>>
>> sociedad diferente. Una communedad como Gaviotas, aunque no siendo
>> la>>>>>> unica de este tipo, represente un modelo interesante de
>> experimento.>>>> ...represents a beautiful accord with what i heard Sr.
>> Lugari>>>> emphasizing>>>> in his lectures and conversations: The current
>> state of human>> development>>>> on>>>> this planet is at a point where
>> wake-up calls are well worth acting>> upon,>>>> and Gaviotas is just one
>> model of a community creating itself as a>>>> distinct>>>> organism
>> separate from the prevailing (unhealthy) trends.>>>> A great number of
>> the questions asked of this man were of what>>>> recommendations he wo
>> uld make for this or that situation. His>> consistent>>>> answer came
>> with a good-humored smile. Gaviotas came into being in>> the>>>> desolate
>> tropical plains of a country at war with itself. How to>>>> replicate>>>>
>> the way Gaviotas operates in Philadelphia? The specific solutions do>>
>> not>>>> apply in this context. It is the model of respecting
>> everyone's>>>> contribution, decentralization of power and authority and
>> the>> creative>>>> generation of local solutions to local challenges:
>> this is what he>> urges>>>> us>>>> to do. Sr. Lugari assures us that
>> although he is seen as the>> mouthpiece>>>> for>>>> Gaviotas and he was
>> instrumental in founding it, he is an ordinary>> member>>>> of>>>> the
>> group, not it's head or leader. "Leaders are for mediocre>>
>> societies,">>>> he>>>> said on a Sunday session.>>>>>>>> Lest i get
>> shunned or worse (it is voting day tomorrow here in the>>>> U.S.) allow
>> me to say that i love taking direction from someone i>>>> really deeply
>> respect, and
>> i enjoy asking people to do things too. On>>>>>> principle, then, I
>> don't see this as a mark of a mediocre society as>>>> it would seem
>> Lugari is saying. Where it really rings true to me is>>>> when force or
>> threats of violence are employed by a leader to coerce>>>> those who
>> follow. Then, surely,>>>> it is a mediocre society at best.>>>>>>>> This
>> list is as you heard a great place to come into contact with>>>> people
>> who are in this field of renewable energy systems. I am>>>> currently
>> more of a student of life, love and wisdom than a>>>> professional in any
>> field, but i have met several of those on here>>>> too! I suggest putting
>> out a simplified resume/vision message on here>>>>>> that may attract the
>> attention of someone looking for a graduate of>>>> such a program as you
>> have been doing. There are>>>> countless opportunities available! Be
>> specific and the right one will>>>>>> open>>>> for you.>>>>>>>> Be
>> well,>>>> Heath Emanuel Synnestvedt>>>> -------------- next part
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