[Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!
steve
stevareno at rtci.net
Fri Nov 7 09:09:29 CST 2008
Any Idea when that information will be vailable to us?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Dingman" <dave_dingman at hotmail.com>
To: <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!
>
> Not that Las Gaviotas needs to justify itself to you, or the world for
> that matter, but I would view the situation as follows:What is Las
> Gaviotas? Las Gaviotas is a sustainable community/living laboratory in
> the Orinoco Basin of Colombia. The community was founded on the principle
> that "one day, the world's population, particularly in the tropics (as it
> is the world's fastest growing population), will be forced to learn how to
> live in the world's most inhospitable locations". Accordingly, the
> development objectives for the community were to create a community using
> only the resources provided by the llanos. In accordance with the Club of
> Rome's publication "Limits to Growth" (which sustainablility enthusiasts
> surely are aware of), the community began to demonstrate the notion of
> systems design and the relationship between Paolo and Gunter Pauli (member
> of the Club of Rome) inspired the founding of ZERI and its 5 kingdoms of
> nature approach to systems design through exper
> imentation in the community. More than ever, in spite of its
> unprecedented success, Las Gaviotas continues to be true to its objectives
> and remains a leader as a living laboratory for the world as it moves
> beyond relatively simple solutions like sleeve-pumps and windmills to more
> intense projects like producing new essential oils, medications and
> bio-polymers and sustainable bio-diesel models from the reforestation
> process. Now, on to the unjustified justification...1) In accordance with
> its objectives, Las Gaviotas - as suggested by Paolo, believes in local
> solutions to local problems. An idea whose application you have disputed.
> Let us look more closely at this... if Las Gaviotas had chosen to abandon
> its objective and import an existing solution such as standard water
> pumps, it would not have solved the real problem with access to safe
> water: the low water table during the dry season. That is an example of
> the basis for the community's beliefs.2) In spite of your obs
> ervations as to the lack of dissemination of technology outside of
> Colombia, Las Gaviotas has gone to incredible and unprecedented lengths to
> share its technologies. Sleeve-pumps and windmills were distributed to
> neighboring settlements throughout the Orinoco basin. These were either
> sold or exchanged for food and/or services. Not to mention the obvious
> humanitarianism in that the community realized the need for water and
> health care and recognized their connection to the region. For those
> outside of Colombia, including those in non-Spanish seaking regions, there
> are manuals printed in comic book fashion with step-by-step parts lists
> and instructions. I've digitized my copies and I will send them to Robert
> for posting on the FOG website, if everyone wishes. I've kept them to
> myself for reasons of copyright infringement, however, after talking with
> Paolo, I don't see it that way anymore. He says, and I am paraphrasing,
> "they share their technologies because their econo
> my is built upon value-added economies and is not subject to competition,
> rather, it fosters cooperation". The lack of dissemination of the
> windmills and sleeve-pumps has mostly to do with the availabilty of
> capital resources as well as demand for the products. As noted by
> Weisman, many of the neighboring settlements did not properly maintain
> their pumps or windmill systems and it was economically impossible for Las
> Gaviotas to continue producing and maintaining them. It is also the case,
> as the community gained support and notoriety from the UNDP, Colombian
> governemnt and other nations such as Japan, that there was not such a need
> for the windmills and pumps as there was for the solar water heaters and
> raw material of pine resin. The developments that launched the economy of
> Las Gaviotas were of military and hotel installations within and around
> Bogota. There is no need for a pump or windmill in the urbanized
> mountainous regions of Colombia. The international inve
> stments from such places as Japan were more focused on raw materials than
> they were a need for Japan to acquire sleeve-pumps and windmills. We must
> also bare in mind that Weisman's book was authored in 1995, after all of
> this has taken place. It is true that the pump is an inspiration and a
> staple of the community, however, it is not their economy. 3) Las
> Gaviotas continues to experiment and explore ways of sharing their
> technologies with the outside world. Of recent, it has attempted to
> partner with the Colombian military and government as well as multiple
> international public and private investors on the Marandua project. Not
> only will this venture exponentially increase the reforestation and
> biodiesel programs, but it will also foster dissemination of technologies
> through scientific/eco-tourism. Unfortunately, as we can all now see,
> working with the Colombian government (or any government) is difficult due
> to the levels of corruption and competing interests. So muc
> h so that Paolo now refers to Marandua, if he refers to it at all, as
> simply an idea. This is surely heartbreaking for many of us who have
> invested ourselves to seeing the project move forward. In spite of this,
> Paolo has acknowledged an increasing interest in allowing
> scientific/eco-tourism to Las Gaviotas. This will only happen when the
> community feels it becomes safe and appropriate for all parties
> involved.4) On the global scene, it is not the responsibility of Las
> Gaviotas to share its technologies. It is theirs, and all of ours,
> responsibility to be a model unto the world. The world is perfectly
> capable of being inspired and choosing its own respective ways. Take for
> example, the Clinton Global Initiative's 2006 investment of $16.4M to
> install 4,000 merry-go-round style "play-pumps" in 10 African countries.
> http://commitments.clintonglobalinitiative.org/projects.htm?mode=view&rid=43026
> There is no way that it should be considered "justified" for Las Gaviotas
> to
> attempt to make such an out-of-reach investment of their resources when
> they are better left to surviving and inspiring Colombia in ways
> appropriate to them. Always remember what Las Gaviotas is, not what you
> perceive it could be. Be inspired. Think for yourself and question
> authority. There that should get the debate going. By the way, Bienvenue
> Manfred! Salud!Dave Dingman > From: pinefarm at uniontel.net>
> To: gaviotas at greenbuilder.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 07:45:46 -0600>
> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!> > If that is true, what
> justification is there for not sharing it with the > world and easing the
> burden on millions of women who pump water every day?> ----- Original
> Message ----- > From: "Katherine Holt" <katherine at peakinsight.com>> To:
> "'Discussion relating to Gaviotas village in Colombia, their >
> technologies, philosophy, etc'" <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>> Sent:
> Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:46 AM> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue
> Manfred
> !> > >>I have been to Gaviotas and have seen/used one of the sleeve pumps.
> It>> truly is a marvel. I could operate it with my fingertips - unlike
> the>> pump I had to use in northern Minnesota which took an enormous
> amount of>> effort.>>>> Katherine>>>> -----Original Message----->> From:
> gaviotas-bounces at greenbuilder.com>>
> [mailto:gaviotas-bounces at greenbuilder.com] On Behalf Of Dave Johnson>>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:35 PM>> To: Discussion relating to
> Gaviotas village in Colombia, their>> technologies, philosophy, etc>>
> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!>>>>>> But, it is a dumb idea.
> That's why nobody in the hundreds of years>> reciprocating pumps have been
> around has ever built one where the sleeve>>>> moves and the plunger is
> stationary. I'll bet you nobody at Gaviotas>> ever>> made one either and
> that's why we've never seen one from there. I think>> Weisman was either
> taken in or he just got it wrong. Lugari should>> either>> admit the pump
> is a hoax or p
> roduce one. He's done neither to my>> knowledge.>> ----- Original
> Message ----- >> From: "Caleb Frase" <CalebFrase at communityproducts.com>>>
> To: "'Discussion relating to Gaviotas village in Colombia, their>>
> technologies, philosophy, etc'" <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>>> Sent:
> Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:13 PM>> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue
> Manfred!>>>>>>> Dave Johnson>>> A pump is a pump, I have to say that the
> sleeve pump concept is easy>>> enough to imagine for anyone with a little
> practical background. A>> friend>>> of mine built a very effective pump
> using PVC pipe and wooden plungers>>>>> with leather seals. It was powered
> by a see-saw motion, done with two>> hand>>> levers at shoulder height. I
> thought it was a great concept and>> suggested>>> that he expand it and
> create a stepper and a bike. The potential to do>>>>> something useful
> while burning calories seemed attractive.>>> Deriding ideas as being dumb
> doesn't help anyone.>>> -Caleb>>>>>> -----Original Message
> ----->>> From: gaviotas-bounces at greenbuilder.com>>>
> [mailto:gaviotas-bounces at greenbuilder.com]On Behalf Of Dave Johnson>>>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:22 PM>>> To: Discussion relating to
> Gaviotas village in Colombia, their>>> technologies, philosophy, etc>>>
> Subject: Re: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue Manfred!>>>>>>>>> His argument falls
> short when it is applied to the so called>>> inventions of Gaviotas,
> especially to the "sleeve pump". A pump is a>>> pump. If it works one
> place, it will work almost any place and yet>>> nobody in the years since
> the book came out has ever seen one, not>>> even detailed plans for one.
> It is a dumb idea and I doubt that there>>> is or ever was any such thing.
> Dave Johnson>>> ----- Original Message ----->>> From: "Heath Synnestvedt"
> <thapeloheath at gmail.com>>>> To: <gaviotas at greenbuilder.com>>>> Sent:
> Monday, November 03, 2008 8:21 PM>>> Subject: [Gaviotas] Bienvenue
> Manfred!>>>>>>>>>> Welcome!>>>> I don't speak French (yet) though i was
> born in
> Canada. Yo si aprendi>>>>>> espanol en sudamerica, pero aqui en esta lista
> se usa primeramente el>>>>>> Ingles. Like you i was captivated by Alan
> Weisman's book, and this>>>> past May i had the privilege of meeting Paulo
> Lugari in Philadelphia.>>>> Your paragraph below:>>>>>Pienso tambien que
> necesitamos inventar para el nuevo siglo, un tipo>>>>>de>>>> sociedad
> diferente. Una communedad como Gaviotas, aunque no siendo la>>>>>> unica
> de este tipo, represente un modelo interesante de experimento.>>>>
> ...represents a beautiful accord with what i heard Sr. Lugari>>>>
> emphasizing>>>> in his lectures and conversations: The current state of
> human>> development>>>> on>>>> this planet is at a point where wake-up
> calls are well worth acting>> upon,>>>> and Gaviotas is just one model of
> a community creating itself as a>>>> distinct>>>> organism separate from
> the prevailing (unhealthy) trends.>>>> A great number of the questions
> asked of this man were of what>>>> recommendations he wo
> uld make for this or that situation. His>> consistent>>>> answer came with
> a good-humored smile. Gaviotas came into being in>> the>>>> desolate
> tropical plains of a country at war with itself. How to>>>> replicate>>>>
> the way Gaviotas operates in Philadelphia? The specific solutions do>>
> not>>>> apply in this context. It is the model of respecting
> everyone's>>>> contribution, decentralization of power and authority and
> the>> creative>>>> generation of local solutions to local challenges: this
> is what he>> urges>>>> us>>>> to do. Sr. Lugari assures us that although
> he is seen as the>> mouthpiece>>>> for>>>> Gaviotas and he was
> instrumental in founding it, he is an ordinary>> member>>>> of>>>> the
> group, not it's head or leader. "Leaders are for mediocre>>
> societies,">>>> he>>>> said on a Sunday session.>>>>>>>> Lest i get
> shunned or worse (it is voting day tomorrow here in the>>>> U.S.) allow me
> to say that i love taking direction from someone i>>>> really deeply
> respect, and
> i enjoy asking people to do things too. On>>>>>> principle, then, I don't
> see this as a mark of a mediocre society as>>>> it would seem Lugari is
> saying. Where it really rings true to me is>>>> when force or threats of
> violence are employed by a leader to coerce>>>> those who follow. Then,
> surely,>>>> it is a mediocre society at best.>>>>>>>> This list is as you
> heard a great place to come into contact with>>>> people who are in this
> field of renewable energy systems. I am>>>> currently more of a student of
> life, love and wisdom than a>>>> professional in any field, but i have met
> several of those on here>>>> too! I suggest putting out a simplified
> resume/vision message on here>>>>>> that may attract the attention of
> someone looking for a graduate of>>>> such a program as you have been
> doing. There are>>>> countless opportunities available! Be specific and
> the right one will>>>>>> open>>>> for you.>>>>>>>> Be well,>>>> Heath
> Emanuel Synnestvedt>>>> -------------- next part
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